stainless steel lines
How to Stop Brake Fade On Trackdays
How to Stop Brake Fade On Trackdays
How to stop pedal fade and pad fade on trackdays
Brakefade is in essence the brakes ceasing to work. This often happens on track after periods or extended periods of heavy use.
There are two types of brake fade, that are essentially broken down into two specific areas:
Pedal Fade
Pedal fade occurs as a result of the brake fluid boiling in the calipers. The normal resulting symptoms are that on application of the brakes, the brake pedal to feel spongy and pedal travel will increase. This is often called the brake pedal going through the floor. It is a particularly unpleasant experience, as normally when you apply the brakes you are expecting them to pull you up, often when “the pedal goes to the floor” you are hurtling towards something that you would rather not make contact with – IE Someone else, armco or other immovable object that will need more than T-Cut and a polish out…
Braided brake lines will also help resist the spongey pedal feel. Stainless brake line information is following in the coming weeks.
If you experience pedal fade, it almost always will require the brake fluid in the system to be changed, as it will have boiled. Once brake fluid has boiled once, its ability to resit boiling again has been greatly reduced. Brake fluid testing should be regularly done as a matter of course, and on a track car or racecar, it should be replaced regularly, or when tests show it has degraded. (Always use the highest-grade fluid possible). The standard brake fluid now-a-days is dot4.1 however, dot5.1 is now quite common and is suitable for most trackday and race applications.
Pad Fade
Pad fade is the result of friction being lost between pad and disc surface due to the friction material exceeding its maximum operating temperature. The pedal feel remains constant (ie. the pedal remains hard) but regardless of how hard you push the brakes, the vehicle is not slowed down.
If pad fade regularly occurs or if it occurs towards the end of a session or race, an upgrade to a material with a higher operating temperature should be considered. If the highest specification pad material is being used, one should be looking at larger rotors (discs) or a higher quality disc with curved vanes can also aid this cooling process. Alternatively, improving cooling to the brakes through the use of brake ducting or similar.
The most significant area of problems or issues with upgraded brake discs, pads and high performance braking systems is almost always the control of the brake temperatures. The Brake disc and brake pad temperatures can be analysed and with this information, one can measure the temperature range the brakes are operating in. With this information different pad materials can be considered, and cooling systems can be developed and tested to analyse whether any improvement can be made to the operating temperature and reliability of the brakes.
We can offer a number of upgrades to almost any vehicle, but you should expect to pay a minimum of £60 for a sensible Trackday pads such as a Ferodo DS2500 brake pad. (More information is available by clicking the link.)
Mintex offer a number of trackday compounds such as the Mintex M1144. (Again, please follow the link for more information.)
Pagid are also an excellent if not a more expensive solution to a trackday and endurance race pad, however, they are very much worth the money in my opinion.
Always a Hooligan,
/y0z
RenaultSport Clio 197 and Megane RS Brake Discs, Pads and Callipers
RenaultSport Clio 197 and Megane RS Brake Discs, Pads and Callipers
The RenaultSport Clio 197 and Megane RS brake disc and pad options are few and far between. Both the Clio 197 and the Megane RS (including the Cup, Trophy, F1 R26 and the R26.R) share the same 4 pot Brembo Calliper and disc combinations on the front, so therefore – what will fit on the front of a Megane will also fit the clio.
The brakes are a big improvement over previous generations of RenaultSport Clios (with the exception of the Clio V6), with a much bigger disc and 4 piston (4-pot) caliper rather than a single piston caliper as found on the Clio 172, the 182 and the older generation RenaultSport cars.
The discs are vented312 mm x 28mm on the front and vented 300 mm x 11 mm on the rear for the Megane and on the rear of the clio, the only difference is the 300mm non vented solid discs.
Brake Discs
What Are The Standard Part Numbers (It’s a nightmare) *All Prices are Ex Vat*
Generic – For All Clio’s and Meganes with the Brembo 4 Pot Caliper:
Caliper Service Kit – 7701208118 - £24.36 (You should get two of them if you are changing your pads – as the pins have a tendancy to seize and to bend)
Brake Pads – 7701208218 – £92.50 (I wouldn’t bother with these – uprate them – see below)
Bleed Nipples – 7701209424 – £3.50 (Also well worth keeping in stock if you are out on track a lot)
RenaultSport Meganes
Megane RS R26-R OEM Brake Disc Part Numbers
Front Discs – Single – 7701210178 – £145
Rear Discs – Single – 8200883862 - Not Available From Renault Yet & No Cost
Megane R26 F1 230 OEM Brake Disc Part Numbers
Front Disc - 7701208843 – £110 (Single)+VAT
Rear Disc - 8200650483 – £95 (Single) +VAT (This Part doesn’t actually fit the car in my experience – the bearing is too small for the stub axle)
Megane RS 225 Trophy OEM Brake Disc Part Numbers
Front Discs – Single – 7701208843 – £110
Rear Discs – Single – 8200443579 – £95
Megane RS 225 Cup Drilled OEM Brake Disc Part Numbers
Front Discs – With Sport Pack (Drilled) – 7701208843 - £110
Rear Discs – With Sport Pack (Drilled) – 8200443579 – £95
Megane RS 225 Cup Plain OEM Brake Disc Part Numbers
Front Discs – Without Sport Pack (Plain) – 7701208130 – £65
Rear Discs – Without Sport Pack (Plain) – 8200266043 – £65
Megane RS 225 - OEM Brake Disc Part Numbers
Front Discs – Without Sport Pack (Plain) – 7701208130 – £65
Rear Discs – Without Sport Pack (Plain) – 8200266043 – £65
RenaultSport Clio 197
Clio RS 197 OEM Brake Disc Part Numbers
Front Discs – 7701208130 (Plain) – £65
Rear Discs – 8200736267 (Plain) – £95
Clio RS 197 F1 Team OEM Brake Disc Part Numbers
Front Discs – 7701208130 (Plain) – £65
Rear Discs – 8200736267 (Plain) – £95
Clio 197 Cup OEM Brake Disc Part Numbers
Front Discs – 7701208130 (Plain) – £65
Rear Discs – 8200736267 (Plain) – £95
What Aftermarket Parts are available?
AP Racing / YozzaSport
AP Racing Disc YozzaSport Bell
AP Racing have a two piece disc solution that YozzaSport have worked on. We use their discs, and our own bells, as the price for us to use the AP Racing parts was just prohibitive for the price of the kit. AP recommend that their discs are used with a compound like the DS2500 or one of the Pagid compounds. In my experience the carbon lorraine compounds that are available just eat the discs. I had a very upset Frenchman complain that the discs were too soft a number of months ago… It was more along the lines that he was using a very hard agressive race compound and with no cooling in the standard arches, everything was getting rather hot.
The AP Racing/YozzaSport kit (P/N CP4590-011BNP.CG8) is £649 for the kit & then £344.78 for replacement discs thereafter.
Brembo
Brembo GT Brake Kit for the Clio 197 and Megane RS
Brembo offer a number of components for the two cars.
A Brembo HC brake disc is one of the universal components that they offer – it is simply a replacement disc to the standard Renault OEM disc.
Brembo also offer a GT 4 pot brake kit, which replaces the single piece caliper with a 2 piece caliper, and offers you the choice of either a slotted disc or a drilled disc. In total there are four kits that they offer, prices range from £795 to £1250 depending on whether you go for the one piece discs, or the two piece bells and rotors.
YozzaSport
Obviously as I have mentioned, YozzaSport offer the 2 piece disc kit in conjunction with AP Racing, but we also offer out own Stainless Steel Braided Brake Hoses/Lines.
Stainless Steel Braided brake lines for the clio and megane RS
The Megane and the Clio both suffer with brake fade on track and the braided brake lines that we offer can eliminate this issue. It is obviously important that you also use good quality brake fluid and that you change it regularly.
K-Tec Racing
K-Tec also offer a 2-piece grooved disc I have just noticed.
Brake Pads
The choice of brake pads isn’t particularly wide. I would recommend that if you are planning on changing the pads that you also get these items in stock – as you will probably end up needing one or all of them…
Caliper Service Kit – 7701208118 - £24.36 (You should get two of them if you are changing your pads – as the pins have a tendancy to seize and to bend)
Brake Pads – 7701208218 – £92.50 (I wouldn’t bother with these – uprate them – see below)
Bleed Nipples – 7701209424 – £3.50 (Also well worth keeping in stock if you are out on track a lot)
The Renault original pad is obviously intended for road use. If you are finding that your brakes are starting to judder then it is normally pad material deposited on the disc surface, and the best solution is to go out and thrash the car for 5-10 minutes, using the brakes heavily, and then letting the system cool down whilst you are driving. This should eliminate the vibrations. However, it is also quite common to warp the discs on the 197 / Megane, so be warned – it could be expensive.
My best recommendation for pads is the Ferodo DS2500 – it is almost the same price as the Renault pad, and is much more agressive when being used hard. Price is about £110.
Other alternatives are as follows:
Carbon Lorraine
(Very heavy on discs)
Pagid
RS5
RS15
RS29
Endless
RenaultSport Group N tarmac rally front pads.
So in essence thats it. The complete knowledge about the brakes and everything that is available for the braking systems for the Clio 197 and Megane.
I might well add a few more details to the brake pads sections in the coming days,
Always A Holigan,
/y0z